Universal Access To All Knowledge
Home Donate | Store | Blog | FAQ | Jobs | Volunteer Positions | Contact | Bios | Forums | Projects | Terms, Privacy, & Copyright
Search: Advanced Search
Anonymous User (login or join us)
Upload

Reply to this post | Go Back
View Post [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 5, 2010 12:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

After all I've read and heard Kahn largely remains a mystery to me . I believe outside of BW , PL , & BK , Kahn had the longest musical partnership w/ Garcia ( 25 years ) . I enjoy his style , especially on the upright bass .
Where did he and Garcia meet ? ( Mike Bloomfield ? , at the Fillmore ? )
And was Kahn part of the Marin scene ?

Some basics ,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kahn

When I looked through Kahn's discography I was surprised that he had any relationship w/ GD . Among other tidbits .

http://www.deaddisc.com/GDFD_John_Kahn.htm

Here are some thoughts from this forum from '06 ( mostly ).

http://www.archive.org/post/59939/best-jgb-show

The first cut here is from '80 , w/ Ozzie Allers on keys and Johnny de Foncesca on drums . This is a rare segue for JGB , the very end of Sitting Here in Limbo -> That's Alright Mama . It rocks .

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=suLpY610jq0

Garcia / Kahn here , doing one of my favs .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lq0p9ipAnps&;feature=related

Lastly JGB in it's final creation , which lasted from 2 - 21 - 86 to the last show , 4 - 23 - 95 . Melvin Seals on organ , David Kemper on drums , Jaclyn La Branch and Gloria Jones on vocals .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRRedsaP-us&;feature=related

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Arbuthnot Date: Aug 5, 2010 6:13pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

wow, that 'It's Alright Mama' is incredible! can't believe i've never seen that before, going to have to hunt down a copy of that show for sure; thanks a ton

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 5, 2010 1:09pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

"This is a rare segue for JGB , the very end of Sitting Here in Limbo -> That's Alright Mama . It rocks ."

It does. Arrrrgggh, this is the stuff that prevents me from working :) I had to favorite that - that clip is just gold.

The Catfish John from that show haunts my dreams too:

http://il.youtube.com/watch?v=n81doCdMzwE&;feature=related

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 5, 2010 6:16pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

I agree with arbuthnot that "That's all right mama" clip is incredible and want to know how you are finding this stuff. I seem to find the same things over and over again on youtube. All the recommendations lead round in circles.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 5, 2010 6:48pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

I search on google , rarely on youtube . But, once I find a vein I follow on youtube .

Be specific with search words . > JBG is not as effective as Jerry Garcia Band . Correct spelling and dates . Garcia Base very helpful for this .

Right beneath the timer ( non - expanded screen ) is the poster of the vid . > ethandeitrich1 for That's Alright Mama . Follow all their vids by clicking on their handle .

This is a great site . Here are all the known vids by Garcia . I went through all of them in July . It was like being at a show at times .

http://www.thejerrysite.com/videos

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: ringolevio Date: Aug 6, 2010 5:10am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Ahhhhhhhhhh! That site spells the end of my ever making a deadline again. I didn't know it existed. Thanks for derailing my career :)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: spring mountain high Date: Aug 6, 2010 6:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

fwiw, david kemper got fired in 1994 i believe...he was pretty bitter about it too

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Hal R Date: Aug 6, 2010 8:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Any knowledge of why he was fired?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 6, 2010 8:42am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

You are correct . If this monkey doesn't see it on the page ....

An article from '97 w/ Kemper

http://www.well.com/user/shmo/kemper.html

Who replaced him ?

edit - Hal read the article , towards the end .

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-08-06 15:42:57

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: jglynn1.2 Date: Aug 6, 2010 9:55am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Lots of good stuff in this interview

BS: There were never nights when you thought the band played extremely well?

DK: I mean, I always had fun. But I was also always comforted by the thought that it was going to be judged by Deadheads and not by people who were �outside the family� because I felt in that light it didn�t hold up. Within the Grateful Dead/Jerry experience it worked. I mean, I�d see them rocking out, way in the back of the auditorium, these silhouettes just rocking away, and I�d think �my god 17,000 people rocking out, even way in the back,� so something must have been happening right! And please don�t get me wrong, for all of our weaknesses as a band, we had some great nights! We had some really great nights.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Hal R Date: Aug 6, 2010 9:22am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Thanks for the article. Nice ending to it from Kemper. "Being in the same room with Jerry was a pretty damn wonderful place to be." Jerry sure had the way of ending of relationships, didn't he? Have someone else end it for you. Pretty lame of the people around him not to say "Jerry tell them yourself". The thing about terminating a working relationship is that you may want to work with that person later. Obviously Jerry was not tuned into or care about that. My musical hero but maybe too a great teacher on close relationships, on how not to do them.

Also found the part about Jerry not talking at shows to be revealing and oh so true.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: light into ashes Date: Aug 6, 2010 9:51am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

That's one of the best interviews about Jerry, full of insights.
"The audience just wanted to be in a room with Jerry. They didn't care if they were hearing fast music or slow music...it didn't matter if it was good or bad or who he had on stage with him. The crowd didn't come to see me or John or Melvin. They came to be in the same room with Jerry."

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Aug 5, 2010 12:56pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Kahn, or "Freebo" as he was known, was introduced to Jer in 1972 by Bill Vitt (Mike Bloomfield's drummer) who "dragged him to a Monday night jam session at the Matrix where Garcia and Merle Saunders were experimenting with jazzy instrumental themes"

Interestingly, the Wiki entry does not mention that Kahn was mariied to Maria Muldaur...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: elbow1126 Date: Aug 5, 2010 1:36pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

I seem to recall reading somewhere that that Kahn and Muldaur opened some shows for the Grateful Dead in '73

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 5, 2010 1:05pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

I think the wiki is mighty abbreviated . Who was this guy ?
The discography has Kahn playing on Hooteroll? , which was released in Dec. of '71 . Which would make 24 years of playing w/ Garcia . I believe that ties him w/ MH .

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Aug 5, 2010 1:27pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Good point! That meeting with Jer and Howard Wales more likely took place during the summer of 1970...

Dennis McNally on Howard Wales:

After emigrating to San Francisco, he landed a gig at the Matrix organizing a regular jam on Monday nights. Late in the spring of 1970, Garcia began to sit in regularly, soon joined by John Kahn, a bass player then working with Mike Bloomfield. There was almost no audience, and they didn't have songs, either. "We didn't play anything very basic at all," said Kahn. "It did not sound like any music you would be used to." "Howard would just play through tremendously extended changes," said Garcia. "It developed my ear...so outside and totally unpredictable." Later Garcia would add, "John and I played for a year before we even really talked to each other. 'Hey what's doing man?' and then spend all night muttering to eah other, 'What key are we in?' Even Wales would describe their music as musical adventures, "free-form jams...I generally induced certain phrasings and stuff that basically would incorporate sort of a composition of a song, but the thing is, it started at one place and ended up in other places."

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: RBNW....new and improved! Date: Aug 5, 2010 1:55pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Not to be confused with Friedberg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freebo

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Aug 5, 2010 2:15pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

During the "Old and in the Way" days, Kahn was known as "Mule"

Likely for his positive and wholesome influence on Garcia...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Street Pig ! Date: Aug 5, 2010 3:35pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Kahn took alot of heat for Jer's decline, I say it takes two to tango

He was influential with alot of the tunes Jer played and as mentioned recently Jer played the best in his later JGB years that he did with the Dead

Attachment: jgb93-11-07_JerryJohn.jpg
Attachment: 139102813tOOGDR_ph_thumb.jpg
Attachment: 2743943273_3527c28bcf_o.jpg

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Aug 5, 2010 1:07pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Kahn sat in with Jerry AND other members of the Grateful Dead on at least one occasion, for this extraordinary benefit acoustic set in 1981. The poigniant rendition of "To Lay Me Down" is breathtaking and one of the very best performances of the song ever played...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1981-05-22.nak300.walker.scotton.miller.95938.sbeok.flac16

Anyone know of any other instances with Freebo sitting in with the Grateful Dead?

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: The Bopper Date: Aug 5, 2010 6:19pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Funny on the review of that show someone mentions that Phil's reason for not playing at these shows was, "no one asked me." How could they not ask Phil to play? Strikes me as quite odd.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Aug 5, 2010 6:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Ah yes, 4/25/81 as well.

The sound quality is superb, and it's well played! However, the renditions are shorter, with straight forward instrumental breaks. Gem af a Friend of the Devil, but really, where was Phil? It is odd...

http://www.archive.org/details/gd1981-04-25.sbd.gems.103640.flac16

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 5, 2010 8:10pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

I'm talking without a lot of knowledge here, but weren't those all acoustic sets? Didn't Phil always play electric, even when they did the acoustic shows? But I'm sure someone can correct me :-)

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Aug 5, 2010 9:04pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Yes, you are correct. However, I cant imagine that being the reason Phil did not participate in those two benefit performances...

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 5, 2010 10:34pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

I guess it's as good a reason as any, though. If Kahn wanted to do it, then the fully acoustic aspect could have been part of the appeal musically. And if they're comparatively brief, with other bands setting up too and all ... and not exactly GD ... that might make it a good time to do it with Kahn. (BTW, as a caveat, I haven't heard the shows because, sigh, I can't stream at ALL yet where I am. Argh.)

Phil did sit in for Kahn later in '82, I think, at a Jerry show. So they did a bit of mix and match there, for whatever reason. Just the musical variety, perhaps ...

This post was modified by AltheaRose on 2010-08-06 05:34:58

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Aug 6, 2010 4:37am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

That doesnt make any sense; After two months of acoustic sets with Phil plugged in, the band would just decide to play without him for "musical variety?"

Surely there is another reason Phil did not perform at these two benefits!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 6, 2010 6:12am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

I'm sure there could be lots of reasons; but what else? I actually don't think it's all that odd, though, to do lots of acoustic sets with Phil plugged in, and then -- for a small, short benefit at home that wasn't officially GD -- end up deciding to do something really fully acoustic, giving Kahn and Jerry a chance to play together in the GD context.

Both of the non-Phil shows seem to be benefits, with relatively short sets, and two years apart, so it's hard to think there would have been a tiff or something that just happened to emerge around benefits ... But if you've got other ideas, speculate away, since "no one asked me" doesn't quite solve the mystery, LOL!

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: Cliff Hucker Date: Aug 6, 2010 6:35am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

The two benefits are only one month apart. The most likely explanation is that Phil had some reason(s) for not participating.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 6, 2010 8:14am
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Whoops, I was thinking '81 and '82. I thought there was something like that in '82, too ... well, probably not. (Which would be one year. So much for my math skills.) I guess without a real answer, it's all speculation anyway.

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: micah6vs8 Date: Aug 5, 2010 9:06pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Hey AR , hope your family is beginning to get oriented .
The show CH put up is a benefit , Sing Out For Sight , not GD .

Excellent tape CH , 40' of bliss . What a twist w/ Kahn .

edit - I like GEMS . They do good work . Follow them .

This post was modified by micah6vs8 on 2010-08-06 04:06:46

Reply to this post
Reply [edit]

Poster: AltheaRose Date: Aug 5, 2010 9:18pm
Forum: GratefulDead Subject: Re: Jerry Garcia & John Kahn

Yeah, I knew it was a benefit -- actually I think both shows without Phil were benefits, right? But I'm thinking it was an acoustic benefit, with a brief set, and I think with other bands, too. (Just rambling off the top of my head from memory, so I could be wrong.) If Phil always played electric, maybe that's why they "didn't ask."

And we are indeed getting nicely situated here, rambling around as if we're on vacation, finding the good restaurants, etc.!